Welcome to In Conversation, a special interview column on the site where we sit down with artists and dive deep into everything music. This week, Joe sat down with InVisions members Alex Scott and Lucas Gabb to discuss the band’s new album, self-producing the record, and returning to the stage. InVisions new album, Deadlock, is due for release on Friday, February 11th, and you can find pre-orders here.
Joe E: Is there a particular approach to writing the album? Collaborative, or how does the process go for the band?
Lucas: I suppose it is a more of a continuation of what we’ve previously done. It wasn’t anything super different, but I think with having the whole Covid stuff, we were very much forced to be separate. But it always starts with a song idea, like myself or Alex will be sending demos back and forth, just sending riffs and different bits of songs. It’s gotten to the point where we’ll get a song 90% of the way done before we’ll ever show someone, because you can fall into a creative bubble where “I know where this needs to go”, but it just doesn’t feel right to show it until you’ve fully pictured what you’re trying to express on it.
Alex: It starts as writers individual, and then it’s basically sort of quality checking with each other, and that’s when the collaborative effort comes in. Y’know, the other person will polish it and take it from there really to make the complete song.
Lucas: Yeah, exactly, and that’s when we’ll pass it between the other guys, like Josh will come in and we’ll go through all the rough drum parts and put in all the feels and grooves with what we want to get across and then we’ll go through and make it his own stuff. Same with Ben, we’ll do a lot of different things. One of the biggest things we’ve done this time around is we vocal demo’d everything to the absolute point of every single different layer and I think previously we hadn’t done it in the same amount of depth. We kind of recorded a rough copy of what we wanted it to basically be like, and Ben and Sam would figure it all out in the studio. But this time around, we knew we wanted to step the catchiness and hooks, particularly the clean vocals. We wanted to match the intensity of the heavies with the clean sections, and that was a huge thing for us. So, y’know, doing all the pre-production on the vocals to the point where we had effectively a finished version of the song before it was recorded. That was probably the biggest and most beneficial change for us because it meant we didn’t skimp out, going into the studio being like “Oh, we’ll try this”, or “We’ll have to settle for this because we have limited time” because we’re doing it in so much extra detail ourselves it added that extra bonus.
Alex: I think with doing those vocal demo sessions as well, we deep dive literally everything this time around. We wanted it to be absolutely perfect down to the point where we were picking out individual words and a common phrase we use in between, where it was like “You need to act this out more”, and “You need to be able to feel the exact word”. That sort of thing, which is something we’ve never done previously. We’ve usually just been like “This is the word, have Ben do exactly what he wants”, and when it came around to Ben actually laying them down in the studio, he absolutely smashed it.
Lucas: It’s just so much more expressive. That was kind of brief between us all for this album. We wanted to have more emotion, a bit more soul. The albums we still go back and listen to, it’s because of the fact that they hold a place in your heart. We still go back and listen to classic Bullet For My Valentine and Killswitch Engage albums, and you still have that likeability towards it because it reminds you of a time. That’s what we wanted to capture, it’s just not something we’ve necessarily done before. We’ve always been the breakdown band, the one and done, and having that opportunity because of Covid really helped change that. But other than that, the only difference is that we’ve recorded the album ourselves.
Joe E: Was there anything in particular that nudged you to have that shift in tone?
Lucas: We just grew up, mate. I think straight up, we sort of changed a lot as people. When this band started, we were really young guys. Now, we’re in our mid to late twenties, all super settled down. I think as well, all of the kind of music we’re listening to, we always take a bit of inspiration from hip-hop. But the hip-hop that we used to listening to is more aggressive and flexi-type stuff, and now particularly, for me as vocals at least, I get more inspiration from guys like J-Cole, or Mac Miller, who are a lot more introspective and tell a story. And that was kind of what we wanted to incorporate. With some hip-hop songs, it’s just beats and vocals. It’s the same beat for four and a half minutes, but it just goes to show that if you write some really good lyrics and you tell a story, how that can completely change the song. You’re not paying attention to the same beat. You’re literally lost in the story. I think that was the move for us. It was to try and put something more across that we’d be proud of and looking back, thinking “I’m glad we expressed that part of us”. And I also think naturally being locked up in a house, you start to go stir-crazy and your concept of the world changes massively, and you do begin to get a bit more introspective. But I’m definitely glad that happened.
Alex: When we were writing previous records, especially with writing lyrics, the main focus points were on “Let’s make this tag-line for the breakdown the best thing it could be”. Sometimes we’d prioritize that over a chorus line. This time around, like what Lucas said, we were aiming for that longevity and for this to impact people’s lives in lyrics that are incredibly honest and meaningful, and I think they definitely reflect that.
Lucas: Another thing that we’ve noticed, and something that we’ve fallen into ourselves, is that a lot of people in metalcore have victim to overcomplicating words, like the trenches of the sea of despair and that sort of nonsense. We’ve kind of caught on to that pretty early, and by just letting the lyrics flow a bit more naturally and not overcomplicating things by trying to make it sound cool, you get a more honest opinion. Just like with “Deadlock“, the first line of the chorus that’s the way it fucking goes, when the world is against you and you’re just taking hits left, right, and center, that’s what you do. You just roll over and take it. Like oh well, that’s just what it is, and that is way more powerful than making an analogy of a sea monster coming and pulling you back to the depths. That was a bit more of a conscious decision I’d say. Having a real one-to-one conversation, I think when a song hits you and it says something that you think or feel, and it’s not trying to disguise itself to sound cool, just on that face value like something you’d say to a friend and express yourself, that hits you like a freight train and that’s the coolest thing for us. The songs we go back to on previous records have more of an emotive meaning to us, like a fundamentally better song. Not just heavy or this, it’s just good songs. So the objective for this record was to write 11 good songs.
Joe E: Was there a conscious choice in putting “Deadlock” and “Annihilist” as the lead singles to showcase the change in style?
Alex: “Deadlock” was actually supposed to be the first release for the campaign, but shit happened and we moved it around and it’s now the last one. With “Annihilist“, it was kind of a new direction for us with this massive poppy course that we’ve never done before. But it’s still heavy and incredibly fast. Then with the second single “D V P E“, it was just absolutely brutally heavy. It was a stark contrast to the first single. And then “Deadlock” ties it all together. It’s classic InVisions, but better.
Lucas: It kind of worked out nicely. There’s definitely songs on the record that are heavier than the songs we’ve released. There’s also songs that are more of the not-obvious singles. When we wrote “Deadlock“, it was the perfect single to lead on from “Gold Blooded“, like the transition from where we’ve been to where we’re going. Having “D V P E” in the mix, we knew if we released one of the singles, someone will be like “Oh, they’re not heavy anymore”, and it was always in the agenda to go with “D V P E” as the second single because it’s got no cleans and it’s just heavy and obnoxious. That was kind of us saying we’re not going to do one thing or the other, we’re not changing styles or anything. We’re just going to write what we want to write. If it’s a heavy song, it’s a heavy song, but we’re just going to write more intelligently.
Joe E: How was it self-producing the album?
Lucas: It was mint, absolutely loved it. I had a great time. To be perfectly honest with you, I hardly ever noticed what was going on. My missus was downstairs on lockdown, and because I’m so wrapped up in this recording process, I can’t understand why everyone else is going crazy and I’m having a mint time. Just sat there recording day in and day out. Don’t get me wrong, you can become your own enemy, because a lot of the stuff I was writing it and tracking the guitars as it went. Y’know, to actually get to the stage where you submit something to being done, it can get pretty savage. You can get pretty hypercritical. But I thoroughly enjoyed it. Over the years, our pre-production demos have gotten more and more advanced and closer to the final product that it was the logical step anyways. So regardless if Covid was a thing or not, it is something we would’ve been doing. The album was still mixed by Joe Graves, but it was the first album that we’ve produced. Every little bit on that project was put there for a reason, down to the little secrets, just those little hyperventilating breaths. No one’s ever going to notice, but for us adds a feeling, and having that amount of time to slave over those little details and create a bigger picture over being on a time limit and trying to get it done.
Joe E: Do those small little details and performing it live make you more attached to the songs?
Lucas: Massively. This album is our baby and we’re all so precious over this album. Normally you go into an album campaign and it’s like “Oh okay, we’ve released the singles” and “Oh alright, these are the best ones”, but for us, I’m so excited for everyone to hear every single song because this is the most consistent we’ve been. Each song delivers something different and it all creates this bigger picture as opposed to “Here’s a few pieces tied together in one CD”. This is an entire year and a half to two years of all of our lives and all of our collective struggles and being able to take that out of our heads and living spaces and put that into a record and deliver that. It is a really nice feeling and helpful process atleast for me.
Alex: It’s kind of like the whole album from start to finish is an experience. It feels like it’s meant to be listened to in order (it’s okay if you don’t, but it’d be great if you did). By the time you get to that last track, it’s just this massive explosion of emotion that encapsulates everything we’ve tried to do with this record.
Lucas: I definitely think it makes you a lot more emotionally attached because you spend a lot more time with it, you live with it. The stuff we went back to and changed. The first song we’ve finished for the album, we finished that probably a year and a half before the album’s actually complete, we’d have the guitars and stuff tracked for that. It got to about maybe two to three weeks before we start the vocals for it, and Alex was like “I don’t like the song, I want to scrap it”. We went back and we revised some bits, added more production elements, and now it’s probably my favourite song on the album. You take a journey when you write each song. It can be a struggle sometimes and it can be a great thing, but that feeling you get when you create something you listen back and go like “Holy shit that came from my brain. I don’t know where it came from.” That definitely does tie you in to the songs a lot more. It’s just a nice connection to have.
Alex: It’s kind of a strange and more unique connection, isn’t it? Because you feel the pride like you’ve said, but you relate to the songs even though you’ve wrote it. You can sort of picture yourself listening to it as a fan, and you’ve got that sort of double whammy of “Oh shit, I created this, this is genuinely really good”, and then the pride kicks in. We’re all really super proud of every single track.
Joe E: With the album due out soon, how is it going into the final stretch?
Lucas: Everything’s getting super exciting.
Alex: It’s been crazy, hasn’t it?
Lucas: We literally just got a playthrough published by Guitar World magazine, and as guitar players, we’re going like “Right, 12 year old me wouldn’t believe that,” which is super exciting.
Alex: Every time we used to meet and chat up when we were kids, we’d be talking about an article we’ve read in a guitar magazine.
Lucas: When you go through the writing and recording process, it doesn’t feel like anybody’s ever going to hear it, so it’s quite nice in that bubble because you’re never sitting there writing and thinking “Oh this person is going to think this or that.” You’re just so removed from it since it takes so long, that all of a sudden when people are starting to hear it and you’re getting opinions, we’re like “Holy shit, people are connecting with the music the same way as us” and seeing the fact that it’s actively bringing new people to us and potentially other people who have never been into the band before. We’re starting to see a lot of people be like, “You know what actually, this is the one that’s going to get me into the band”, which to us is super cool, because as a musician, people who turned us away previously and now being like “Oh shit, yeah, cool” means you’ve grown I guess.
Alex: For the past 2-4 years, however long we’ve been a band, we’ve always been that band people would comment “More people need to give these guys attention” or being called underrated. Now it looks like it’s starting to shift a bit and people have heard of us, people do know our music. The tables are turning a bit, so I’m hoping that continues.
Joe E: Going through track by track, which ones are your personal stand-outs?
Lucas: That’s difficult. There’s a couple for me that depend on the reasoning and it can always change. Having a favourite definitely changes, since it depends on what mood you’re in, you tend to naturally gravitate towards a song about that, which is one of the coolest things about music. For me, one of the ones I have a soft spot for is “Last Light” and that’s because when it came to writing the vocals, I was spent. I was out of ideas, didn’t know what was going on. I ended up watching a Billie Eilish documentary about her life, how she blew up in the course of 2-3 years, and that song was actually written about that documentary about how she was dealing with the pressures of fame. There was a line in it that goes “So tell me who made the measure, because it’s a lonely place to live forever.” That was just about a little scene where she’s a young girl travelling the world and she’s getting pushed around to do this and that, and she was like “Can I get 5 minutes where I can just be a normal human being”, and that was really impactful. That was where the whole song came from, and we’re not sitting here being musicians to be famous. That’s not an interest, I just want to play music. So seeing someone having to actively deal with this huge mammoth beast of becoming an enterprise at 17 is insane. So that song definitely has a soft spot for me because it pulled me out of writer’s block and I sort of needed that and it became one of my favourite songs lyrically because of that.
Alex: I couldn’t give you a particular one, but I can give you a collection of songs. One of my favourite things in metalcore is when a song has the most amazing, explosive, emotional ending. Killswitch are absolute masters at this. Periphery as well. It’s definitely something we’ve looked at on this record, so songs like “Hindsight“, “Last Light“, “Dealer“, “Forewarn Me“, the last chorus in “Deadlock“. Songs like that, those are sort of my metalcore down to a T.
Lucas: I would agree with “Hindsight“. We play that in practice, and the ending is so epic, we have this joke that if we don’t play it well enough, we didn’t earn that ending. We have to earn that epic moment because it’s so fulfilling as a musician when we can crush that and you can be absorb by that super epic outro. Definitely would agree on that, there’s a lot more epic moments on this album than we’ve ever done before.
Joe E: Soundwise, are there any elements you felt a little more compared to previous albums?
Lucas: I’d say it’s a bit more of a natural development. We’ve been getting better as writers and producers and getting better at what we can do with our own kind of views. I think the orchestration on this album is 100% better, and there’s a lot more ambient layers so each song feels like it has its own space. It doesn’t feel like 4 guys in a room, it feels like 4 guys in a stadium. It has its own sonic space.
Alex: It’s that classic metal element, with that earworm riff. The “Enter Sandman“, something that everyone knows. We’ve never really done that before. We’ve tried to write decent riffs, but they’ve never been riffs that are immediately going to be remembered, apart from “Memoriam” on the last album, and this album’s full of it.
Joe E: Are there any bands you’ve drawn inspiration from for this album, or was it trying to do your own thing?
Lucas: It’s a bit of a mix. Me and Alex are the main songwriters of the band, and we have very different tastes.
Alex: The root of our tastes are fairly similar, but we draw inspiration from different areas when we’re writing.
Lucas: I take care of the modern stuff, you bring the actual groove and the traditional heavy, and the combination of the two is where it makes InVisions. We’ve had quite a lot of people say “I’ve heard your band and I feel it calls back to what I used to listen to” and that’s mint, because that’s still what we listen to. We definitely do take inspiration from modern bands, like Wage War, Polaris, Architects. Loads of mint bands. But then there’s Killswitch Engage, Periphery, Bullet For My Valentine. Arguably one of the most controversial things we could say about this record is that we took a lot of writing inspiration from Bullet‘s Gravity album, where everyone seems to say it sucks but we think it’s mint. Obviously they got a lot of negative reviews for that because it wasn’t traditionally heavy, but I think as songwriters, that was a good album, because the songwriting was great, and that was something we wanted to try and get into. Not necessarily to write a softer album, but to just write classically better songs.
Joe E: The tangent between the artwork and the actual album itself, was it a conscious choice to make that shift in artwork?
Alex: Absolutely. We definitely wanted to go with an emblem, some sort of icon. Wherever the artwork is, whether it be on a t-shirt or a hat or something, you immediately associate it with that record. That was intentionally all the thought behind it. We collaborated with Dan Hollard, and he absolutely smashed it out of the park.
Lucas: We had the title “Deadlock” and we knew we didn’t want to do anything we’ve done before. We knew we wanted it to be dark, because to us it felt like The Black Album, where we found what we wanted to do. We never had a dark theme or campaign before. We’re a metal band and we’ve never had a black CD colour before. Talking about “Deadlock“, you immediately go into locks and start talking about the meaning behind it and how deadlock is this impossible cycle where we’re trying to figure out what we’re doing with our lives, where we’re going, realize who we are, where we find ourselves, how we value ourselves, particularly with our music during the pandemic. A lot of our worth comes from how the band is doing. If the band is doing great, we’re all feeling happy. If the band’s not doing shit, we’re all sitting there going “What the fuck am I doing with my life?” And that feels like this impossible circle or deadlock, and that’s where we went into sort of impossible shapes like the Penrose triangle where we created the emblem from, because the more you look at it, the more confusion it is. Like the impossible staircase from Inception. That’s where it all sort of stemmed from because that’s what it can feel like being in a band sometimes. Just running around in circles just trying to get to the next step.
Joe E: How was it returning back to stage after such a long time?
Alex: It was over 2 years. We had 2 warm-up shows in October of last year, and then we hit the road in December. It felt so, so good to be out. Like Lucas said earlier, we’ve grown up as people, we’ve matured. It was very much like people just did their jobs. There was barely any drinking, we hit the gym everyday. We were just being adults, and it was so much easier for it.
Lucas: It’s nice, and we’ve got a new found respect for what we’ve do, because when you get it all taken away and when you come back to it, you appreciate it on a whole new level. We wanted to get the absolute most out of touring. Trying nice food, seeing new places, doing the best possible job we can at the shows. Even down to meeting fans and setting up the merch the best it can. It gave everyone a whole new perspective and that was super refreshing because we were all happy to be there. It could be 4 AM and you’re loading down 2 flights of stairs and you’re stoked to be there because you’ve had the opportunity to be. Not that we’ve ever taken that for granted, but the year before Covid, we’ve played almost 100+ shows in that year, and you do get a bit used to it and don’t really appreciate it as much as you should. And getting back to playing live with new songs as well is just great. This band’s got a new identity, loads of new songs, upgraded all of our gear, better at playing our instruments. It’s felt like a rebirth, InVisions 2.0. Now we’re back and hungry for blood.
Alex: It’s also nice to see some of our old fans as well that we’ve seen throughout the UK before come down to shows. They’re like our mates, shoutout to Ben and Tony in London, Tom in Berkley, brought some awesome Christmas presents and cards.
Lucas: We’ve done quite a bit on social media and livestreams, but actually connecting with people in a physical presence. There is no substitute for that, so having that back is amazing. It’s like coming back from summer holiday during school and seeing how everyone’s changed. It was exciting to see everyone again and reconnect.
Many thanks to Alex and Lucas for chatting with us, and you can read our review of Deadlock in the coming days. For all things InVisions, metalcore and music in general, keep it locked on Boolin Tunes.